Forum:2019-06-28 (Friday)
Discussion for comic for . Bored? Looking for something useful to do? There's plenty of wiki editing you can do. ---- This theory may have come up already, but wondering if Lucrezia's growth into The Other was the result of an attempt of doing something similar to what the Grey Cloaks achieved. Obviously she was involved in a LOT of other shady stuff even before she married Bill Hetrodyne, yet Klaus and Albia seemed to believe that there was nothing particularly special about her back then; yes she would have had to have been a strong Spark to challenge Bill and Barry at all, just not like this. Obviously she could have been hiding her true potential, but wondering now if the massive jump in cognition that allowed her to go from (relatively) crude forms of mind control to that of her Wasps was the consequences of enhancing her intellect in some way. And subsequently breaking her mind of course. 'Black' Victor Cachat (talk) 00:11, June 28, 2019 (UTC) : I suspect time travel -- i.e., Lucrezia got the enhancement (and mind-breakage) from one of her future selves. Tryingtobewitty (talk) 08:30, June 28, 2019 (UTC) :I also suspect time travel. The key logical issue with time travel, unless we get into alternate universes or authorial brain-slippage, is that free will disappears when the traveler starts looping. Lucrezia's fated to become the monster who hunted the Queens, and presumably her future selves will help/force her past selves to create that path. In this way she's a tragic monster, and it will be interesting to see how much of the damage she caused was "fated," and how much of it was her trying to strike out and demonstrate her free will against ther fate in which she found herself increasingly entangled. Incidentally, Agatha and Gil have the same problem, because they've been in time windows too. Finally, it's worth noting from the Dim/Snacky fight that a spark that goes extradimensional can still lose to a normally dimensioned Spark who's nastier and more experienced. That's probably what did in the Queens, as much as anything else, and I don't think Lucrezia the Queen killer was extradimensional. She was simply using futuristic weaponry and catching them by surprise. heteromeles Moxana points for Undomelin! Bkharvey (talk) 05:00, June 28, 2019 (UTC) : Thanks. :) Though I'm surprised they all fell for that. —Undomelin ✉ 08:43, June 28, 2019 (UTC) Sssiigh. So which would prove to be more annoying at this point- Lucrezia has taken control, or Agatha has been kidnapped. Again. --Geoduck42 (talk) 05:03, June 28, 2019 (UTC) : I'm betting kidnapped. Otherwise it's hard to make sense of the Clue: Maxwell's copper hammer. Perhaps she's been kidnapped by Seffie and Secret Passenger; I think that of all the loose ends floating around, that's the most likely to be relevant. Unless I'm forgetting that Dr. Dim was clutching a hammer when he entered the rift. Bkharvey (talk) 05:07, June 28, 2019 (UTC) ::Nein. Also Ten, and possibly all the way up to Eleven. Lucrezia. Bosda Di'Chi (talk) 11:12, June 28, 2019 (UTC) :::Maybe she's hiding inside that boiler or whatever it is on the left. Bkharvey (talk) 18:43, June 28, 2019 (UTC) ::That is visible here and . --Fred1740 (talk) 21:08, June 28, 2019 (UTC) :::Oh. So maybe it's lying on the floor because Lucrezia used it to smash the locket. :-( Bkharvey (talk) 22:22, June 28, 2019 (UTC) :::: I suspect a successfully smashed locket would result it locket guts scattered on the floor. I suspect Agatha trying to defend herself is more likely. Or it fell when she was picked up and carried away. Argadi (talk) 23:41, June 28, 2019 (UTC) ::::: Yes, now that Fred1740 has pointed out that the hammer is from Agatha's tool belt, it's presence on the floor would seem to indicate some kind of struggle took place, therefore Agatha was kidnapped. If she just bolted, there is no reason for anything to have fallen out of her tool belt and certainly no reason for her to have deliberately dropped it. Unless Lucrezia is trying to make it look like Agatha was kidnapped. -- William Ansley (talk) 12:17, June 29, 2019 (UTC) Sorry, me again... If he had any sense, Tarvek would resolutely ignore the Agatha problem and find another way to conjure up Klaus. "We're going to get your father out of your head" would probably do it. But I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen. Bkharvey (talk) 05:11, June 28, 2019 (UTC) : The calls of "Agatha's gone" might bring the Baron back, or talking to Gil about what Agatha is doing. (Even make something up to pique his interest.) We don't know Tarvek was told what steps to perform once everything was in position. But we probably won't find out soon as this smells like at least a scene break. Argadi (talk) 10:23, June 28, 2019 (UTC) :: Alas, we do know that Tarvek is foolishly staring out the door instead of keeping his hand on that lever. (Sorta reminds me of the practical joke in which you get three or four friends together and stand on a street corner staring into the sky in the same direction.) By the time he gets back inside, Klaus will have figured out what's going on and destroyed the equipment. Bkharvey (talk) 01:01, June 29, 2019 (UTC) ::: Nah. They'll just ditch the equipment and Gil will join in chasing after Agatha. --Geoduck42 (talk) 02:00, June 29, 2019 (UTC) ::: Actually Tarvek especially should know better than to join the mob, because he knows that a Jägergeneral, whose primary loyalty is to Agatha, is on hand to lead the chase. Bkharvey (talk) 08:02, June 29, 2019 (UTC) Going back to the recent discussion, this seems like a big enough cliffhanger for a volume break. Argadi (talk) 10:23, June 28, 2019 (UTC) : I was just about to say the same thing. I hope we find out on Monday, but it may be a while before the Foglios let us know for sure. They changed their minds about the cut off page for volume 17; originally, it was going to be (as the note at the top of the shows), but then they moved pages from the end of 17 to the beginning of 18, making the final page of 17. ♦ :: Speaking of the Muse of Vengeance, that's another loose end. Unless it's the Secret Passenger. :) Bkharvey (talk) 16:56, June 28, 2019 (UTC) ::: Just a small part of the Chekhov's Armoury the Foglios have stockpiled. -- William Ansley (talk) 18:23, June 28, 2019 (UTC) :::: Girl Genius isn't cited in that article in case anyone has spare time. (I mean, spare time *after* you help this wiki.) Argadi (talk) 21:05, June 28, 2019 (UTC) ::::: Girl Genius is mentioned in the examples there; you have to scroll almost all the way down and look under Web Comics. However, the citation is incomplete and outdated, so what you said still applies. -- William Ansley (talk) 12:17, June 29, 2019 (UTC) : Perhaps because of this, the Foglios took their time in deciding on, or at least in revealing, the cut off page for volume 18, letting the pages numbers of what seemed to be volume 18 reach 130 before deciding 18 really ended with ♦ : Since the Foglios will be at a convention this weekend, even though it's a local one, I'm guessing that the next page will be numbered 123, although it may not stay that way. Since I have spelled out my thoughts in such detail, I'm undoubtedly tempting fate (and the Folgios) to prove me wrong. -- William Ansley (talk) 14:59, June 28, 2019 (UTC) ::That seems to be the recent pattern. This does look like an end-of-volume page but won't be marked as such for another week or two. --Fred1740 (talk) 16:38, June 28, 2019 (UTC) I'll make my own pointless prediction, just because it's Friday. 1) Agatha got nabbed by Dupree, who wants to use Agatha as a lure to draw out Zeetha from wherever she is. 2) Tarvek doesn't try to extract Klaus from Gil, because (no) reasons. Instead he joins the pursuit, catches up with Dupree and tells her some version of, "You idiot, I was just about to get Klaus out of Gil like you wanted me to when you messed it up." 3) Gil's with Tarvek when he runs into Dupree, Agatha, and Zeetha. Klaus therefore reappears, and tells Dupree that Gil and Zeetha are siblings, and Dupree killing Zeetha gets a lot more complicated. heteromeles : Zeetha doesn't need luring out, remember when they were talking back during the train thing Zeetha said fighting Dupree would be fun. Zeetha had already connected the dots and worked out that she'd killed all of Dupree's crew and so a fight between them would be inevitble. 06:47, June 29, 2019 (UTC) :Thanks, I hadn't realized there was a point at which Dupree talked with Zeetha, so that they both knew that the other was itching to fight. I'd figured that Dupree didn't know, even if Zeetha did. heteromeles :: Dupree didn't know, not until Ulysses Bonny told her recently. Zeetha knew all along that she had killed all the members of some pirate band, so once she found out about Bang, she probably made the connection, although I don't think that's ever been spelled out for us officially. But in any event, both women love fighting. Bkharvey (talk) 16:38, June 29, 2019 (UTC) ::Um, let me try to be a little less circumspect: Dupree (probably with a crew, possibly alone) breaks into the dome, looking to kill Zeetha. She finds Agatha alone in the hallway. What does she do to Agatha? My guess is that she takes Agatha hostage for use against Zeetha. You seem to be saying that no, she'd do something else. What is the other thing she would do? heteromeles ::: Who, me? I'm not saying she'd do something else. I'm agreeing with you that Dupree didn't know until recently that it was Zeetha who killed her crew. I do also agree with 65.92 that Zeetha won't need any special persuasion to fight Bang. But yeah, maybe Bang might think that having Agatha kidnapped would put Zeetha off her game, or something like that. But, having said all that, your proposal, I think, doesn't pass Occam's razor. We know that Seffie is moving heaven and earth to get to Agatha. So she's the obvious kidnapper candidate. Otoh, this is GG, where the obvious thing isn't always what happens. Bkharvey (talk) 19:03, June 29, 2019 (UTC) :Point three error: Klaus does not know Zeetha is his daughter. He last saw her when she was one month old. Maybe he remembers her name but he hasn't heard it and only met (fought) her at the Circus. They haven't met since. Only Zeetha can do the reveal of her family status. And - No - DuPree is not going to break into the Dome under current lock down. --Fred1740 (talk) 01:21, June 30, 2019 (UTC) ::: I agree with you about Klaus and Zeetha, at least to the extent that all he knows for certain is that some young woman from Skifander has turned up in Europa. But he's very very sharp, and might deduce who she is, and do The Reveal. And Bang could totally turn up inside the dome, maybe using inside info from her former dome-employee informer. --Geoduck42 (talk) 02:25, June 30, 2019 (UTC) :::: ... and/or his purloined sub. Bkharvey (talk) 03:27, June 30, 2019 (UTC) ::Given past history of how the Foglio's write this, it is too early for Bang to fight Zeetha. My take is Bang is going to set a trap for a one-on-one fight. Agatha and body guard are too strong for Bang to wade into the middle of them. She will make Zeetha come to her. You're all eager to see this fight so you want it now. But it will be a while. it certainly took long enough for Bang to find out. --Fred1740 (talk) 20:11, June 30, 2019 (UTC) :::: I don't want it now -- or rather, I don't want Agatha's disappearance to be about that. As 65.92 said, Bang doesn't need any complicated plotting to lure Zeetha. Remember, Zeetha is the one who, after killing all the pirates on the ship, sought out their home base so she could kill all those pirates, too. She's just as motivated for this fight as Bang is. I'm voting for Seffie as kidnapper -- and, it just occurs to me, Mr. Obsidian as Secret Passenger, since there's a kidnapping involved. Bkharvey (talk) 20:38, June 30, 2019 (UTC) Some questions might possibly be answered if you're sneaky. Bkharvey (talk) 23:24, June 30, 2019 (UTC)